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Subject: Partially unattended backup to CD gives problems

By: Wim Beijer

26/09-2004 14:35

I made a job: Full backup of my D drive (9GB aproximately 9 discs (CD-R) needed)). Zip 001 burned to disc 1 during my absence. I stayed away too long to insert a new blank disc in time. In my absence zip 002 was made. When I came in again, zip 003 was being created (no trace of zip 002). So I inserted a new blank disc. Zip 003 was burned succesfully to disc 2. Again I stayed away too long to insert the next blank disc. Zip 005 was already in processing (no trace of zip 004). Than I cancelled the job.
How should I configure the SW to wait for my reappearance en insert a new blank disc before writing? I colud not find it in the help file.
Today I tried with Nero to write some files to disc 1. This failed (of course); not enough space available. I tried the same using Zip Backup to CD and disc 1. I got hte same messsage: not enough space. So the program does detect a fully burned CD-R. Why not during the backup proces itself?
For refencepurposes her is the log:
25-09-2004 20:48:30 Log Created.
25-09-2004 20:48:30 > Files total: 53119
25-09-2004 20:49:19 > Files to backup: 53119 Folder infos to backup: 2156
25-09-2004 20:49:20 > Bytes to backup: 8035536738
25-09-2004 21:05:39 > File created: D:\ZipBackupTemp\Dell-D-Full-20040925001.zip / 680550480
25-09-2004 21:08:54 > No errors found in: D:\ZipBackupTemp\Dell-D-Full-20040925001.zip
25-09-2004 21:28:34 > \Dell-D-Full-20040925001.zip burned to disc - Avg. 585 KB/s, Max 972 KB/s
25-09-2004 21:35:32 > Dell-D-Full-20040925001.zip - Burned and compared with source, OK
25-09-2004 21:36:51 > File created: D:\ZipBackupTemp\Dell-D-Full-20040925002.zip / 30037628
25-09-2004 21:37:05 > No errors found in: D:\ZipBackupTemp\Dell-D-Full-20040925002.zip
25-09-2004 21:39:06 > \Dell-D-Full-20040925002.zip burned to disc - Avg. 579 KB/s, Max 972 KB/s
25-09-2004 21:40:25 > Dell-D-Full-20040925002.zip - Burned and compared with source, OK
25-09-2004 21:57:36 > File created: D:\ZipBackupTemp\Dell-D-Full-20040925003.zip / 681117867
25-09-2004 22:01:29 > No errors found in: D:\ZipBackupTemp\Dell-D-Full-20040925003.zip
25-09-2004 22:21:10 > \Dell-D-Full-20040925003.zip burned to disc - Avg. 585 KB/s, Max 1024 KB/s
25-09-2004 22:30:24 > Dell-D-Full-20040925003.zip - Burned and compared with source, OK
25-09-2004 22:31:24 > File created: D:\ZipBackupTemp\Dell-D-Full-20040925004.zip / 29301828
25-09-2004 22:31:33 > No errors found in: D:\ZipBackupTemp\Dell-D-Full-20040925004.zip
25-09-2004 22:33:34 > \Dell-D-Full-20040925004.zip burned to disc - Avg. 590 KB/s, Max 1024 KB/s
25-09-2004 22:34:53 > Dell-D-Full-20040925004.zip - Burned and compared with source, OK
25-09-2004 22:46:03 > Files checked: 68
25-09-2004 22:46:03 > Files backed up: 68
25-09-2004 22:46:03 > Bytes backed up: 2643479493
25-09-2004 22:46:03 > Backup cancelled

By: Datahjaelp

26/09-2004 15:36

You do not need to worry about the skipped files they are recorded in the queue and will be burned when all files are created or if your temp space is exhausted the program will stop creating files and start burning the files in the queue. If for some reason you did not get all the files burned to CD’s you can use the “Burn File to CD” on the “CD/DVD” tab.

The reason for this behaviour is to avoid spilling the time. If you do have enough temp space you can create all the files and then burn them when you have time to play disc jockey.

By: Wim Beijer

26/09-2004 16:39

Where do I find the queue (phisically on my HD)?
I have made a directory especially for the intermediate files. I can see during the proces that that directory is being used. However zip002 and zip004 are nowhere on my HD. So how can the program burn them later if they are not kept somewhere? Or do you mean that the files to be backed up are not yet compressed to a zip file?
Studying the log file in more detail, I see that both zip002 and zip004 are about 28MB (instead of 650MB; which explains why I was late renewing the discs. Anyway that is my other post). Nevertheless, The log fiel explicitely states that the files are burned to disc, which is not the case (disc 1 and 3 are full: 650MB). How should I interpret the messages in the log file?

By: Datahjaelp

26/09-2004 16:58

Have you look at the disc, the disc is probably a 700 MB disc and you have booth the 650 MB and the 28 MB file on the disc. What version of the program are you using?

By: Wim Beijer

26/09-2004 17:11

The discs are indeed 700MB but my drive does not support more than 650MB. I can see on eacht disc only 1 zip file (zip001 resp. zip003). I have tried to add some files to the full discs (with NERO) but that's impossible (no space) Adding files to the 28MB discs (see my other post) was possible (after which they are visible).
The version:
Zip Backup to CD version 3.18.7.408

By: Datahjaelp

26/09-2004 19:00

I am quit sure the files are on the cd as the verification is impossible if the file is not present. But it can very well be that your drive together with the operating system is not able to read the CD. If you have the possibility to look at the CD on another PC with a different type of CD device you would probably see the missing files.

By: Wim Beijer

27/09-2004 17:50

Let me summarize and analyze the problems in both my posts:
=1= I create I new backup job: Full backup of my C drive (3,3GB) using 700MB CD-r’s and max. file size set to 700MB
=2= My assumption is that Zip-CD first checks the presence of an empty disc or disc with enough space.
=3= The log file:
25-09-2004 16:51:51 Log Created.
25-09-2004 16:51:51 > Files total: 30965
……[skipping the lines about skipped files etc.">
25-09-2004 17:17:43 > File created: D:\ZipBackupTemp\Dell-C-Full-20040925001.zip / 732813863
25-09-2004 17:23:30 > No errors found in: D:\ZipBackupTemp\Dell-C-Full-20040925001.zip
25-09-2004 17:44:35 > \Dell-C-Full-20040925001.zip burned to disc - Avg. 585 KB/s, Max 1024 KB/s
25-09-2004 17:46:40 > Could not mount the disc with Dell-C-Full-20040925001.zip, test the file manually when the job is finished
25-09-2004 17:57:35 > File skipped, while in use: C:\WINDOWS\?
25-09-2004 18:01:28 > Files checked: 24800
25-09-2004 18:01:28 > Files backed up: 24788
25-09-2004 18:01:28 > Bytes backed up: 2223982955
25-09-2004 18:01:28 > Backup cancelled
=4= The line with “Could not mount….” was the signal for me to cancel the backup process. Apparently my burner (or the combination of HW (Sony CD-RW CRX100E 1.0m), OS (W2K-SP4) and Zip-CD) cannot burn a 700MB file on a 700MB disc.
=5= I decide to start all over again. This time limiting the max. file size to 650MB.
=6= My assumption is that Zip-CD first checks the presence of an empty disc or disc with enough space. (I inserted a blank 700MB disc)
=7=. The log file:
25-09-2004 18:08:36 Log Created.
25-09-2004 18:08:36 > Files total: 30968
25-09-2004 18:08:52 > Duplicate entries removed: 8
25-09-2004 18:08:58 > Files to backup: 30960 Folder infos to backup: 1822
25-09-2004 18:08:58 > Bytes to backup: 3317524122
……[skipping the lines about skipped files etc.">
25-09-2004 18:33:24 > File created: D:\ZipBackupTemp\Dell-C-Full-20040925001.zip / 680852221
25-09-2004 18:38:50 > No errors found in: D:\ZipBackupTemp\Dell-C-Full-20040925001.zip
25-09-2004 18:58:31 > \Dell-C-Full-20040925001.zip burned to disc - Avg. 585 KB/s, Max 1026 KB/s
25-09-2004 19:05:36 > Dell-C-Full-20040925001.zip - Burned and compared with source, OK
=8= So far so good. The first disc is OK. Since Zip-CD explicitly warns me not to remove the CD-R too soon, I wait.
=9= My assumption is that Zip-CD again checks the presence of an empty disc or disc with enough space. Since I inserted a blank 700MB disc and 650MB is written to it and I did not yet remove the disc, there still is 50MB available. My assumption is that Zip-CD finds 28MB free space (that could be the limit of what my drive can read and write; 650+28=678MB). So Zip-CD starts to create a zip file of max. 28MB.
=11= I see that a new file is being made. It must be save now to take out the first disc and put in a new one (700MB).
=12=. The log file:
25-09-2004 19:06:29 > File created: D:\ZipBackupTemp\Dell-C-Full-20040925002.zip / 29262268
25-09-2004 19:06:37 > No errors found in: D:\ZipBackupTemp\Dell-C-Full-20040925002.zip
25-09-2004 19:08:36 > \Dell-C-Full-20040925002.zip burned to disc - Avg. 582 KB/s, Max 1026 KB/s
25-09-2004 19:09:04 > Dell-C-Full-20040925002.zip - Burned and compared with source, OK
=13= So now I have a 700MB disc only filled with a zip of 28MB.
=14= My assumption is that Zip-CD again checks the presence of an empty disc or disc with enough space. Since I inserted a blank 700MB disc of which only 678MB is accessi-ble/readable and 28MB is written to it and I did not yet remove the disc, there still is 650MB available. So Zip-CD starts to create a zip file of max. 650MB.
=15= I see that a new file is being made. It must be save now to take out the burned disc and put in a new one (700MB).
=16= The log file:
……[skipping the lines about skipped files etc.">
25-09-2004 19:32:54 > File created: D:\ZipBackupTemp\Dell-C-Full-20040925003.zip / 681464854
25-09-2004 19:38:30 > No errors found in: D:\ZipBackupTemp\Dell-C-Full-20040925003.zip
25-09-2004 19:58:12 > \Dell-C-Full-20040925003.zip burned to disc - Avg. 585 KB/s, Max 1026 KB/s
25-09-2004 20:05:59 > Dell-C-Full-20040925003.zip - Burned and compared with source, OK
=17= This gives me a full 650MB disc again.
=18= My assumption is that Zip-CD again checks the presence of an empty disc or disc with enough space. Since I inserted a blank 700MB disc and 650MB is written to it and I did not yet remove the disc, there still is 50MB available. My assumption is that Zip-CD finds 28MB free space. So Zip-CD starts to create a zip file of max. 28MB.
=19= I see that a new file is being made. It must be save than to take out the burned disc and put in a new one (700MB).
=20=. The log file:
25-09-2004 20:07:24 > File created: D:\ZipBackupTemp\Dell-C-Full-20040925004.zip / 28548803
25-09-2004 20:07:37 > No errors found in: D:\ZipBackupTemp\Dell-C-Full-20040925004.zip
25-09-2004 20:09:36 > \Dell-C-Full-20040925004.zip burned to disc - Avg. 585 KB/s, Max 1026 KB/s
25-09-2004 20:10:04 > Dell-C-Full-20040925004.zip - Burned and compared with source, OK
=21= So now I have a 700MB disc only filled with a zip of 28MB.
=22= My assumption is that Zip-CD again checks the presence of an empty disc or disc with enough space. Since I inserted a blank 700MB disc of which only 678MB is accessi-ble/readable and 28MB is written to it and I did not yet remove the disc, there still is 650MB available. So Zip-CD starts to create a zip file of max. 650MB.
=23= The log file:
……[skipping the lines about skipped files etc.">
25-09-2004 20:17:23 > No errors found in: D:\ZipBackupTemp\Dell-C-Full-20040925005.zip
25-09-2004 20:22:49 > \Dell-C-Full-20040925005.zip burned to disc - Avg. 585 KB/s, Max 1026 KB/s
25-09-2004 20:24:22 > Dell-C-Full-20040925005.zip - Burned and compared with source, OK
25-09-2004 20:24:29 > Files checked: 30960
25-09-2004 20:24:29 > Files backed up: 30941
25-09-2004 20:24:29 > Bytes backed up: 3110846144
25-09-2004 20:24:29 > Warning some files where skipped see detailed log!
25-09-2004 20:24:29 > Detailed log saved as: C:\Documents and Set-tings\Administrator\Application Data\ZipBackupToCD\Log\Dell-C-Full_102.txt
25-09-2004 20:24:29 > Backup end: Dell-C-Full.dat
=24= If my assumptions are correct, it is fully explainable why I end up with disc 1 650MB, disc 2 28MB, disc 3 650MB, disc 4 28MB and disc 5 the remaining of the backup.
=25= The free space on disc 2 (678-28=650MB) can be reused. With Nero I could add files to the disc (I did not try that yet with disc 4).

Now the story for my full backup of my D drive:
=26= I create I new backup job: Full backup of my D drive (9 GB) using 700MB CD-r’s and max. file size set to 650MB
=27= My assumption is that Zip-CD first checks the presence of an empty disc or disc with enough space. (I inserted a blank 700MB disc)
=28=. The log file:
25-09-2004 20:48:30 Log Created.
25-09-2004 20:48:30 > Files total: 53119
25-09-2004 20:49:19 > Files to backup: 53119 Folder infos to backup: 2156
25-09-2004 20:49:20 > Bytes to backup: 8035536738
25-09-2004 21:05:39 > File created: D:\ZipBackupTemp\Dell-D-Full-20040925001.zip / 680550480
25-09-2004 21:08:54 > No errors found in: D:\ZipBackupTemp\Dell-D-Full-20040925001.zip
25-09-2004 21:28:34 > \Dell-D-Full-20040925001.zip burned to disc - Avg. 585 KB/s, Max 972 KB/s
25-09-2004 21:35:32 > Dell-D-Full-20040925001.zip - Burned and compared with source, OK
=29= At this moment in time I was watching TV, so unable to replace discs.
=30= The first disc is OK, but stays in my drive.
=31= My assumption is that Zip-CD again checks the presence of an empty disc or disc with enough space. Since I inserted a blank 700MB disc and 650MB is written to it and I did not yet remove the disc, there still is 50MB available. My assumption is that Zip-CD finds 28MB free space (that could be the limit of what my drive can read and write; 650+28=678MB). So Zip-CD starts to create a zip file of max. 28MB.
=32= I am still watching TV, so I do not replace the disc.
=33=. The log file:
25-09-2004 21:36:51 > File created: D:\ZipBackupTemp\Dell-D-Full-20040925002.zip / 30037628
25-09-2004 21:37:05 > No errors found in: D:\ZipBackupTemp\Dell-D-Full-20040925002.zip
25-09-2004 21:39:06 > \Dell-D-Full-20040925002.zip burned to disc - Avg. 579 KB/s, Max 972 KB/s
25-09-2004 21:40:25 > Dell-D-Full-20040925002.zip - Burned and compared with source, OK
=34= Zip-CD apparently succeeded in burning that 28MB on the remaining free space of disc 1. See line =37=
=35= My assumption is that Zip-CD again checks the presence of an empty disc or disc with enough space. Since disc 1 has (I assume) 2 zip files of 678MB total, there is no space avail-able. So Zip-CD starts to create a zip file of max. 650MB and leave it in the queue for later burning.
=36= The log file:
25-09-2004 21:57:36 > File created: D:\ZipBackupTemp\Dell-D-Full-20040925003.zip / 681117867
=37= Just after the start of zip003 I come in again and see that I am too late. Nevertheless, I replace the disc with a blank one (which gives the opportunity to burn the file in progress to disc when ready) and go downstairs again.
=38= The log file:
25-09-2004 22:01:29 > No errors found in: D:\ZipBackupTemp\Dell-D-Full-20040925003.zip
25-09-2004 22:21:10 > \Dell-D-Full-20040925003.zip burned to disc - Avg. 585 KB/s, Max 1024 KB/s
25-09-2004 22:30:24 > Dell-D-Full-20040925003.zip - Burned and compared with source, OK
=39= This gives me a 650MB disc again.
=40= My assumption is that Zip-CD again checks the presence of an empty disc or disc with enough space. Since I inserted a blank 700MB disc and 650MB is written to it and I did not yet remove the disc, there still is max. 28MB usable. So Zip-CD starts to create a zip file of max. 28MB.
=41=. The log file:
25-09-2004 22:31:24 > File created: D:\ZipBackupTemp\Dell-D-Full-20040925004.zip / 29301828
25-09-2004 22:31:33 > No errors found in: D:\ZipBackupTemp\Dell-D-Full-20040925004.zip
25-09-2004 22:33:34 > \Dell-D-Full-20040925004.zip burned to disc - Avg. 590 KB/s, Max 1024 KB/s
25-09-2004 22:34:53 > Dell-D-Full-20040925004.zip - Burned and compared with source, OK
=42= Zip-CD apparently succeeded in burning that 28MB on the remaining free space of disc 2. See line =37=
=35= My assumption is that Zip-CD again checks the presence of an empty disc or disc with enough space. Since disc 1 has (I assume) 2 zip files of 678MB total, there is no space avail-able. So Zip-CD starts to create a zip file of max. 650MB and leave it in the queue for later burning.
=36= When I come in and see that zip005 is in progress (and zip004 seems to be ‘skipped’) I cancel the backup process.
=37= The support desk advised me to check if I could find zip002 on disc 1 and zip004 on disc 2. Today I went with my discs to a computerstore and checked only disc 1 on a brand new system. Only file Dell-D-Full-20040925001.zip (650MB) could be seen. I had no opportu-nity to check disc 2.
=38= If I try to restore from zip002 it won’t work. It cannot open the file (it reads continu-ously without hanging the system)

My conclusion:
I believe that Zip-CD finds space that is not visible for my system and uses that to store 28MB. Funny is however that there is no way to see that 28MB (not with my ‘old’ system, not with e brand new system and not with Zip-CD itself).

My question:
How can I backup using 700MB discs (650MB CD-R is no longer available or hard to find) without spilling (only 28MB on a disc) and without losing data (invisible files)?

I am still interested in Zip-CD and would like to use it on 3 computers.

By: Wim Beijer

29/09-2004 21:22

There may be 3 solutions to above problem.
1. The SW will not write more MB to disc than indicated by max. file size. This requires modification of existing SW. (This wil have implications for writing multiple small files to media with a capacity much higher than max. file size, e.g. several files of 700MB on a 4,5GB DVD).
2. A setting is added to enter the max. capacity per disc. This requires modification of existing SW.
3. Before startung the backup job e free space per disc of 28MB or 52MB (I saw next to the Path field an indication of free space: 702MB. So 702-650=52MB to leave unused). I tried both 28MB and 52MB. In both cases Zip-CD still creates a 28MB zip002 file.

Furthermore (when i tried 52MB free space) zip001 has been burned to CD but did not verify (the zip001 in the temp directory verifies witk the original files but not with the file on disc). An errormessage is given together with the request to enter a new disc. When done, the discdrive and Zip-CD hangs (freezes).

I don't see any more solutions. Without feedback and/or improvement I have to stop the evaluation and look for other backup SW.

By: Datahjaelp

29/09-2004 22:17

The program will always fill up an existing CD and as long as there is any free space it will use it. This is sinful in most cases, as a drive normally will report the free space and normally also can use this space. But it could also be a nice feature to have the possibility to say that I will only have files of the specified size if possible within the limitations of the media file format etc. I have added a feature to specify that “Only Fixed Zip File Size” shall be used. This feature will be available in the next version. Please drop me a mail if you wish to test the beta version and I will mail the file to you.